What Would You Say to the Fighting Atheist?

If you are reading this article, then it is likely that you believe in Jesus Christ. I hope that your belief is not simply a mental assent to some doctrinal statements about him (he is God; he died for my sins; etc.) but an actual commitment to trust in him and follow him as your life’s primary directive.

But what about those people who do not believe? Why don’t they accept what we have accepted? What’s wrong with them?

Perhaps nothing is wrong with them. A relativist would say that, although their frame of mind is different from mine, it is no better or worse, no closer to or farther from reality. If so, then I should just them alone.

Perhaps they have never heard anyone present the gospel. (In the United States, this is possible but unlikely.) If so, then I should try to evangelize them and present the gospel to them.

Perhaps they have not been given enough evidence to convince them that the gospel accounts are true, that Jesus rose from the dead, etc. If so, then I should give them a book by Lee Strobel or Josh McDowell.

Perhaps they were abused by unloving, judgmental or hypocritical Christians who misrepresented Christ to them. If so, then I should love them and show them that not all Christians are bad, and that Jesus is far better than the church.

Perhaps they are fools. That is a distinct possibility. After all, the fool says in his heart, “There is no God” (Psalm 14:10). If so, then I am not sure what to do, because the Bible gives conflicting advice. Proverbs 26:4 says, “Do not answer a fool according to his folly…” And the next verse, Proverbs 26:5, says, “Answer a fool according to his folly…”

Perhaps they are simply rebelling against God, refusing to accept his Lordship because they want to glorify themselves, enjoy sinful human freedom, whatever. If so, then I should do whatever I can to expose their sinfulness and awake their consciences.

Or perhaps, for some mysterious reason known only to God, they have not yet been gifted as I have. At the end of Angels and Demons (which, by the way, is not such a bad movie), the character played by Tom Hanks says, “Faith is a gift that I have yet to receive.”

That last answer raises all sorts of difficult theological questions that in this present life we may never be able to resolve. Yet in many cases, this is the only answer that seems to make sense. There are plenty of good people who are better, more sincere, and smarter than I, who have grown up in the presence of Christians and do not hate what they have seen, who have read plenty of books by C.S. Lewis, who see the goodness and beauty of Christianity, and still have not put their faith in Jesus. Not because they don’t want to, but because they feel that they cannot, and if they did it would be a false conversion.

It’s a strange thing to be evangelizing people and encouraging them to believe if we don’t really know what faith is. And the Bible does not tell us. The closest thing to a definition of faith appears in Hebrews 11:1: “Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.” Faith is inherently paradoxical. A kind of certainty in the midst of uncertainty. A knowledge of something that is otherwise unknowable. It is an ex nihilo creation, making something out of nothing, which God can do but we cannot.

For those who believe, faith is a sixth sense. It picks up things that we cannot see, hear, touch, smell or taste. A reality may be detected by multiple senses, or by just one, or not at all. If my house is on fire, I might not be aware of it. Or I might smell the smoke before I feel the heat, see the flames, etc.  Each of our five senses is a wonderful gift. If there is a spiritual/heavenly realm beyond the material/earthly, then there must be realities that cannot be picked up by any of our five senses. We would need another sensory system to detect those realities, and that too would be an unmerited gift.

Last night, my wife stumbled upon this Youtube video on “How to convert an atheist.” The maker of this video, a man who calls himself “the Fighting Atheist,” is obviously familiar with Christian apologetics in the Josh McDowell/Lee Strobel vein and remains thoroughly unconvinced. In this video, he explains to Christians the kind of historical and experiential evidence that he would need to accept a religion as true, and he says that is he were presented with this evidence, he would convert on the spot.

I think that the whole premise of this video is wrong. Yet this premise could be as widespread among modern Christians as it is among atheists.

Suppose that Mr. Fighting Atheist is telling the truth. Suppose that he really would convert and self-identify as Christian if presented with the right evidence. If so, would he then have faith? Would he be a child of God?

I don’t think so. The kind of knowledge that he would have — evidentiary knowledge accumulated through the material senses – is not faith at all. Changing one’s mind about whether a particular religion is correct is not the same thing as coming to faith. Biblical faith is a knowledge of reality that goes beyond what can be seen. It’s as if the Fighting Atheist were saying, “I will accept that blue is different from yellow when I can clearly taste the difference with my own ears.” 

One of my sons is colorblind. If his vision had never been tested by a professional, we would never have known it. And even though we know it, it doesn’t make any difference; he still cannot distinguish certain colors.

Certainly there are many nonbelievers who are ignorant, misinformed, rebellious, foolish, abused, unloved, desiring to sin, etc. (Plenty of Christians fall into those categories as well.) Are those things ”the reasons” why they do not believe? Or are they simply handicapped, lacking the God-given ability to discern spiritual reality?

Meeting a handicapped person evokes a wide range of conflicting emotions among those of us who are supposedly “normal.” We experience discomfort. Curiosity. Pity. Respect. Awe. We desire to help them without being condescending. We want to put aside the disability and recognize them “for who they truly are,” yet the disability is a large part of who they truly are. We want to put a positive spin on the situation and see the handicap as a gift. Indeed, a disability in one area of life does often bring out good things in other areas of life. But that does not mean that the disability is good.

The Bible doesn’t just claim that nonbelievers are handicapped. It claims that they are dead. More accurately, it claims that they are not yet born. This is the key idea in John chapter 3 where Jesus talks to Nicodemus. Nicodemus is not a bad guy. He is not proud, ignorant, morally deficient, insincere, or holding on to any false doctrines. In fact, Nicodemus is exemplary in every way. His “spirtual problem” is that he cannot see the kingdom of God. He has no God-given ability to perceive spiritual reality because his soul has not yet come alive. And there is nothing that he can do to come alive, because regeneration (new birth) is the work of the Holy Spirit.

If you could have a five-minute conversation with the Fighting Atheist, what would you say to him? I have a rough idea of what I would say. But I would like to hear from you.

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  1. This is such a great topic. In my experience, there’s nothing I could say that would make an atheist convert on the spot. It is a matter of principle, and personal dignity for them to resist Christianity–at least for the moment. If they do convert, it won’t be right then and there. That said, I wouldn’t really argue with them. I know that if I did, I would just get very worked up, and probably say something very stupid/untrue that they could later hold against me or against God. I would just very calmly say, “I hope you don’t mind that I’m praying for you.” And move on.

  2. Hi Sara,
    Thanks for your comment. I agree that there is nothing that you can say to convert anyone, especially in 5 minutes. Conversion is God’s business. Our business is to help people from wherever they stand to move a little closer toward God through our personal witness.
    I would agree with the Fighting Atheist to a point. Early in his video, he says that if you ask a believer what evidence would convince him to abandon God and become an atheist, the likely answer is ,”Nothing.” He concludes that faith is a kind of closed-mindedness. But I would say that he is misunderstanding and mischaracterizing the nature of faith. Faith in Jesus Christ (and I cannot speak to faith in any other religion) does not come about by listening to arguments for and against and then deciding which side has better evidence. Moving from non-faith to faith is not simply changing one’s opinion. It is more like taking wedding vows “for as long as we both shall live.” It is moving from a state of uncommitedness to a state of permanent commitment. So it is quite natural for the Christian to say, “Nothing will ever change my mind.”
    Faith is like falling in love with God. It is not a purely rational process; it is not something that we can do on our own. It is less about what we think and more about what we want. If I could talk to the Fighting Atheist, I would ask him questions that are less about what he thinks and more about what he wants.

  3. Thanks for this post. This is highly interesting and relevant for me because i happen to discuss with a convinced atheist at work.
    I totally agree that it is absolutely impossible to make an atheist believe by just winning the debate. And yet i do value these kind of conversations and discussions a lot. Whereas i do not expect my “opponent” to give up his/her belief systems, i would like to show forth that there are good reasons to believe and that our intellect and knowledge is not a hindrance for belief. It is in fact the opposite. Thinking about the evidence for God, being mindful and thoughtful should strengthen our belief in God.
    and i sense that in light of the anti-intellectualism that is somewhat wide-spread amongst Evangelicals, Christians should maybe start following again the examples of great men in church history who were all great thinkers to re-affirm the point that faith has actually something to do with excellent reasoning.

  4. This post is rather disturbing on several levels. Let’s go through this logically. Every day, you and everyone else living in a functional civilization makes judgements about reality based on evidence. You believe that when you toss a baseball into the air, it will come back down, not because you have unwavering “faith” in gravity, but rather because there is an overwhelming amount of evidence to suggest that matter attracts other matter.

    You can test this hypothesis. In fact, whenever a claim about the way the universe works is made, the first thing we do is test that claim. If I were to make the claim that I had the telepathic ability to read your mind, you would be under no logical obligation to believe my claim on faith — rather, you would immediately propose some sort of challenge to test my ability. (If you would NOT demand evidence of this ability before believing it, by all means speak up.)

    You (believers) have made a claim about the way the universe works in the form of one omnipotent deity. Neither I, nor FightingAtheist, nor anybody else with a functional mind is under any sort of logical obligation to believe this claim on faith alone. In fact, doing so is no less insane than believing in my alleged telepathic ability.

    FightingAtheist was considerate enough to operationally define the terms of evidence he would personally accept to believe in your deity, and yet rather than meet those terms and actually support your claim, you back down. Surprise, surprise. It’s rather like me telling you “well my psychic abilities can’t be tested, but if you don’t have faith that they exist, then you must be dysfunctional… or DEAD, rather…” It’s rather like when the Willard Preacher says ‘Oh, I can jump over Willard Building, but I can only do it faster than the speed of light, so you won’t be able to see me.’

    I’d just like to express my own disgust not only at the blatant cop-out that is this post, but at the outright slander which the poster attempted to use to divert attention from his own deficient argument. I find it morally repugnant that rather than address a valid argument, jls would resort to petty name-calling (”Certainly there are many nonbelievers who are ignorant, misinformed, rebellious, foolish, abused, unloved, desiring to sin, etc. “)

    It’s fitting that this blanket attack on a group of people is as unfounded and unsupported by evidence as jls’ deity. Are we to just “have faith” that all atheists are ignorant rebels as well?

  5. Hi Scott,

    Thanks for stopping by, taking the time to read my article and post a substantive comment. Despite the differences between us, you are welcome here anytime and will be treated with respect.

    You have clearly understood the essence of my point, and I’m not surprised that you found it offensive. My claim is rather outrageous, and there is no unanimity among Christians either on the nature of faith.

    I strongly agree with you that, in much of our lives, we come to know and understand the world around us by processing experiential and sensory evidence. Refusing to do so and holding on to opinions that are completely contrary to evidence and logic is a kind of insanity and denial of our human-ness that many of us have been guilty of at one time or another.

    I too am glad that FightingAtheist was explicit about the kinds of evidence he wants in order to believe. When I heard him, I did not feel defensive and I did not back down. At earlier points in my life, when I was less secure in my own beliefs, I might have backed down. Or I might have argued with him on his own terms and tried to present him with the kind of evidence that he is demanding. But today I do not accept his terms, because I think he is misunderstanding the nature of (specifically the Christian) faith.

    Faith, as I understand it, does arise in part from a rational weighing of experiential evidence gathered by one’s self and others. But there is much, much more to it than that. You have to factor in character, culture, hope and desires, because in large part people (all of us) believe what society tells us to believe and what we want to believe. But there is still more. Beyond that, there is a mysterious quality to faith that makes it like a sixth sense; it comes to us as an unmerited gift. I think that God wants to give everyone that gift, but he presents it to people in different ways at different times in their lives, and he does not force it upon anyone; the gift must be received.

    This is what I would say to FightingAtheist: Suppose for a moment that there is a an unmerited supernatural gift that would greatly help you to gather and process knowledge of the supernatural. Would you want to have that gift?

    If at any time you would like to write a piece for publication on Seed, send to psuseed@gmail.com and we will be happy to post it.

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